Synergy - list your examples here

Discussion in 'The DIY Workshop' started by Gary, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. Gary

    Gary Member

    Not really DIY as it takes no skill except listening! :D But sometimes components simply don't match or a particular wire makes the music sound different.

    I read over at AK that some folks really liked the Home Depot extension cord as wire. Use the white and black wires as you don't need the green (which is the ground, I believe). I tried this and they sounded excellent on my vintage three way speakers with the Denon receiver. Good match! But when I tried them with my tubes, they sounded muffled. Bad match!

    Either that or I've completely lost it... :crazy:

    Any other examples or tips out there?
     
  2. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    Were they talking about using that solid core Romex wiring, which they use for wiring power outlets? I don't know what it was, but IIRC, there is an advantage to using stranded vs. solid core wiring. Not for sonic qualities, but for power transfer. That may explain why some newer speakers have an issue with it...
     
  3. Gary

    Gary Member

    I don't know about the solid core Romex wiring. But I've tried Anti Cables which are solid core. Muddy bass but lots of it.
     
  4. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    Oh wait...you were talking about the wiring used in three-wire extension cords. :doh: And, that is stranded cable. Some of that wire is only 16 gauge, if not thinner.

    I've actually had good luck with some of the "oxygen free" copper cables I've gotten. In fact, at one store, they had a flat, braided 12-gauge OFC cable that was easy to lay under carpeting or elsewhere. And I forgot where I bought it, but I had a spool of 10- or 12-gauge OFC paired cable.

    Once I can get my Martin-Logans here, I'm sure I will be able to hear all sorts of differences in the wire.
     
  5. darkmatter

    darkmatter Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

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    In one system my Cat5/6 mix sounded excellent the system is neutral, in another which is a bit hair shirt (bright) they sounded just that overbearing.

    I have experimented with the cats and they can be good get the cable mix wrong, no bass :confused:
     
  6. darkmatter

    darkmatter Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

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    Gary are you talking system components too?
     
  7. Gary

    Gary Member

    Sure! The whole thing!
     
  8. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    My original turntable rig always sounded nice together. Grace G707-II tonearm fitted with the original Shure V15-VMR cartridge (not the darker VxMR that was reissued in the 90s). I had it mounted on the Walker CJ-55 turntable, which is sort of a Linn Sondek sort of setup (suspended subchassis), but all made entirely out of wood or wood products (like the Bakelite™ platter). Thing is, speed was always unstable, and it ran too fast, so I mounted the arm up to the Denon DP-1000 direct-drive turntable, where it still sounds good, but IMHO it was a bit better on the Walker. I can solve stability with a different belt, but I have no clue what to do about speed. I could have the pulley machined down a bit, or try to find a variable-frequency power source for it. I've also heard of enlarging the subplatter , but I don't know what I'd use. And I also don't know if the 45RPM speed is the same degree fast as the 33-1/3 RPM.
     
  9. darkmatter

    darkmatter Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

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    Some brief thoughts,

    Naim systems

    Linn / Naim combination

    Horns and valves ( I have some experience here with a friends system in the late 80s we tried some tranny poweramps with his horn speakers :yikes: talk about paint stripping potential!!)

    HiFi Plus magazine used to harp on about "coherent cable looms", I hated that expression which was used to death by one of their reviewers :sigh:

    Basically his premise was to use all cables by the same maker this has some basis but he was talking about different cables from the same maker rather than the same cable used for I/Cs, power and speaker connections.

    More thoughts later :)
     
  10. darkmatter

    darkmatter Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

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    I still use an LP12, there are certain arms that work, others that don't like SMEV etc :)
     
  11. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    My cousin had an SME series III mounted on a Fons turntable. Neat rig, but back then I can't remember how it sounded (I was probably in my mid teens). He was the one who found a pair of McIntosh tubed monoblocks, that shipped with a separate power supply, that he thinks were used for an LP cutting lathe at one time. Can't recall what he used for a preamp, but he used to run these through a pair of Small Advent speakers. The whole thing was sort of cobbled together. He may still own it, but I'm not sure...he sort of blew his mind out with drugs back in his 20s, and hasn't been the same since. Now he's 50 years old and living in his parents' basement...
     
  12. Pete

    Pete New Member

    So when is that going to happen? We're waiting. You're halfway responsible for me getting my Martin-Logan Source speakers! When are you going to join the club?


    :source-l: :peatnap: :source-r:
     
  13. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    I wish I could get them right away, but I'm in the middle of a move, and my travel funds will be limited until I recover from that. I may even see if I can find someone to bring them over here, if they are traveling from the east coast to our area.

    I'm very anxious to hear these. I still think yours would probably sound worlds better. I've read that the model I'm getting isn't that good in the upper bass for some reason, although some have replaced it with a newer model M-L woofer and it fixed the issue. So I think there's a lot of potential and given what I paid, I can afford to tinker around or modify them a bit to get them where I want them to be. I'm not sure, but the original M-L Sequel may have been M-L's first "hybrid" system with a cone woofer crossing over to a panel.
     
  14. darkmatter

    darkmatter Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

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    I remember the Fons TT at the time a competitor to the Linn LP12, it worked rather better with the SME arms than the Linn :)
     
  15. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    Fons was not very popular over here. The only place I ever saw them was listed in an advertisement in the back of either Stereo Review or Audio magazine. One unusual feature was that it had a 78RPM speed on it.

    I bought the Walker unheard--I just ordered it up through a local mail order company. In one of the audiophile rags though, it got a decent review and it fit my budget at the time. The Grace arm I got as an open box model, on sale at one of my favorite local audio shops, Absolute Sound. The Shure cart I know came from Lyle Cartridges, where I usually sent everyone to buy stuff back in the day.
     
  16. Candy

    Candy Forum goodtime gal

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    One experieence that kinda lingers in my memory is hearing a Technics SL PG200 being played through a Technics vx 500 integrated amp and the mids sounding decisively lumpy. Substituting a Crown pre/power combination sounded much better match with the same ICs, speakers and cabling.
    Crazy stuff, eh?
     
  17. Rudy

    Rudy ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Member

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    I had a similar revelation myself.

    Back around 1983 or so, I decided I wanted more than the 25 watts my cheap integrated amp put out. I wanted that Carver "cube" (M400). The audio store told me to, instead, upgrade the integrated amp with an NAD that, even though it had 25 watts, it was a more powerful 25 watts. And I could use it as a preamp later in life,. So, of course I went and bought the M400. :laugh: I then rewired the integrated amp so that I could use it as a line-level preamp. (The power amp circuitry was on a different board, so it was easy to tap into the line-level signal.) Yeah it played loud enough, but early the following year, I bought a Hafler DH-101 preamp kit. Once I got it wired, hooked it up and dropped on the Earth Wind & Fire "Raise!" album...jaw-dropping time. The bass on "Let's Groove" had slam and weight to it, and it snapped. Everything sounded so tight and together! My buddy at the time noticed it also: "Daammmmn, that's TIGHT!" We threw every great LP I had at that system and it just sounded so much better.

    Just shows you that you can't have a weak link in your playback chain like that. :agree:
     
  18. darkmatter

    darkmatter Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

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    My first experiences of system synergy was as I mentioned earlier with Linn / Naim systems, I heard the LP12 Nait Kans setup and it knocked me sideways that such a dynamic exciting sound could emerge from a small set of speakers and a ~12 wpc amp :)
     
  19. Gary

    Gary Member

    Sounds crazy indeed! You'd think Technics + Technics would be an excellent match! :shrug:
     

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