1. Effective immediately, the forum is now closed to new posts. If there is any interest in refocusing and restarting 52nd Street, contact us at the link below. It's a shame that 18 years of history has come to this, but, it's time to move on.

BFT #108

Discussion in 'General Jazz Discussions' started by Luis Antonio Palmeira, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. As I said in the rotation topic, this compilation was ready about two weeks ago, waiting for my time. Since it became BFT#108 (and we don't know if a last one), I think it's better to upload it and send the link to download, instead of sending it by air mail (my original idea in order to prevent track's infos being disclosed by Windows and other softwares). Nobody must feel commited to write down a "full analysis". Maybe the feeling of "obligations" concerned to BFTs can contribute to lessening our interest in them, and a lighter approach (for instance, short remarks about some tracks or only one track setting up a sort of collective conversation) could be more attractive. So, feel free about the "procedures".

    The tracks are in mp3 format. I used the same procedures in the making up. 1) Burning a new CD with the tracks in .cda format using Nero, in the process erasing tracks infos and writing on each track proper fields "track nn" as "name" and "unknown as "artist". 2) Converting all these tracks from the new mold CD, one by one, to .mp3 format, storing the output into the computer; 3) Assembling a new compressed file containing all these mp3; 4) Finally, uploading that file.
    That procedure didn't prevent in the past the disclosing of some tracks. I am convinced that burning a new CD from the downloaded file or, alternatively, putting it into a MP3 dispositive as Ipod can prevent it. Anyway, everyone must feel free to follow his most comfortable way.

    I uploaded to Dropbox, but had some problems in doing so. Have a link but I am not completely sure of it. Just in case, I also uploaded the compilation to Divshare. Since it restricts the uploads to 20 Mb, I needed to split into four files.

    Since Ken, Dr. Bob, David and Bill told in the rotation topic they would like to have the compilation, I sent to them the five links (one to Dropbox and four to Divshare). Of course, I will send the links also to everybody else who wants, in a special way our regular participants Peter/Dino, Ronald and Kurt.

    Have fun. And "let us see what happens" :)
  2. Bluetrain

    Bluetrain Active Member

    jacksonville, fl
    Luis Antonio, I can see track info on tracks 2,4,5, and 7. As we discussed before, I can't burn a CD without opening the Windows folder the .mp3 files are in, and as soon as I open the folder, I see the info. I didn't even start Media Player.

    Also, I tried the dropbox download first,the download worked, but the file is .rar file which I can't open. But the 4 other downloads gave me .zips, so that worked fine.
  3. It is a complete mystery to me .... Anyway, it's the music that matters
  4. Bluetrain

    Bluetrain Active Member

    jacksonville, fl
    I'm going to sit out this BFT after all. I'll be watching to see if there are further BFTs.
  5. J. Robert Bragonier

    J. Robert Bragonier Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

    I was able to download the file to my Dropbox, and my WinZip unzipped the file without difficulty. Also, I have no information about the tracks, using either iTunes or RealPlayer Cloud. I've already burned the music onto a blank CD, so I'm all ready to go. Thanks, Luis Antonio!
  6. Bluetrain

    Bluetrain Active Member

    jacksonville, fl
    Luis Antonio, I want to apologize for my curt dismissal your new BFT. I listened to it before I posted my comment and I was fatigued by the end. As usual all of the music was excellent. But it was pretty heavy going, not so much to listen to, but more in thinking what to write about the various tracks. I think 6 tracks were orchestrated large ensemble tracks, and I really can't say anything about them without describing the various sections of each piece which would take me several more listenings to each. I'm just too lazy to do that anymore.

    Pretty much the same goes for the last three piano pieces. All excellent, but I can't describe the differences between them without more work. I'll take a stab at #11 being Tatum.

    I saw the answer to several tracks. I'm pretty sure I would have recognized #5 as I have that album and the reed player is one of favorites in jazz history. I also have the CD of #4, but its unlikely I would have recognized it. I wouldn't have gotten #7, but I enjoyed it and appreciated that it lightened the mood of the test for a bit. And I love the tune When and Where.

    So, again, Luis Antonio, I apologize. I appreciate the work you put into this, but I don't have the ambition anymore to address 70+ minutes of music of this depth. The large ensemble pieces and piano work should be right up Bob's ally, and he can always describe what he is hearing much better than I can, so I'll be interested to see what he writes up.
  7. Bluetrain

    Bluetrain Active Member

    jacksonville, fl
    When Muhammad Ali got floored by a devastating Joe Frazier left hook in their first fight, i don't remember him lying on the canvas moaning that that it it was too much for him too handle. Shame on me for not remembering that. So here's some specific comments on the test.

    1. An intriguing large ensemble piece. It starts with lush brass chording amongst shimmering chimes and piano response, and then moves into an upbeat sax section theme where a melodic alto player emerges to take the solo limelight. The only drawback to me is that this piece could have been further developed to say more. But, for what it is, it sounds very good.

    2. The mp3 info gave away the pianist's identity to me. From what I've heard in this pianist's other work, which I like, I was impressed by the progressiveness of this track's approach. Mostly I liked the bassist's drive. After Googling the album's info, I know who it is, and now am not surprised that he caught my ear.

    3. A more complex and more contemporary ensemble than track #1, it's a solemn piece of exquisite beauty. the lead woodwind player reminds me of Marty Ehrlich, but I made a fool of myself when I associated him with a track that turned out to be John Carter on a previous test. So, I'll remain agnostic as to who it is. But I really enjoyed the lead playing as well as the woodwind section playing supported by the lower brass players. This is a favorite track on the test for me.

    4. Again, the ID info gave it away and I have this album but don't remember the specific track. All I'll say is that I heard at least some players of this group several times in their long standing NYC gigs in tribute to this great jazz composer and loved it (the trombone wailing late in the track may help to identify who that composer is). Without looking at the album info, the trumpet soloist early on may be Jack Walrath. I'm not sure what happens after that, but it seems to move to another separate track.

    5. This is the only track I wish the mp3 ID had not been given. I should have easily IDed the player, but since I almost missed a Don Ellis track I've heard dozens of times on the last BFT, who knows how faltering my memory is. Anyway, move over Trane and Dolphy, this guy, IMO, easily completes for the most creative wind player of the era. Yes, there is only one wind player here; listen closely to the wind harmonies about half way through the track, that should clue you in as to who it is. Oh how I love him. Excellent soulful music by a great musician who isn't as appreciated near as much as he should be.

    6. And a more modern piano trio than track #2 that starts with what I hear as a classical style them and soon devolves into modern harmonic exploration. Perhaps "too short" would be my only complaint with this. I liked it very much. I don't have a clue as to who it is.

    7. And now I get to tap my feet! Again, the mp3 agave it away, but not an issue for me as I wouldn't have guessed it. I tried to Google the full ensemble here, but only found a couple names playing with the sax legend on this recording. Anyway, this is as classy and smooth as it can get. i very much enjoyed the various sax solo input on this. A very well placed moment of profound ease and beauty on this test.

    8. A Lester influenced tenor player (Getz maybe?) in what I take to be a tortured version of the old standard "I Can't Give You Anything But Love." The bass solo was OK, but the sax player made this brief track most enjoyable.

    9. Another inventive ensemble piece. I love the solo string statements. It starts with, and maintains, a delicious mournful quality, and I take it that its a cello (but maybe a viola) taking over the first lead. That's just beautiful phrasing. Then I'd guess we're hearing some violin. Obviously a trumpeter follows, then more strings. I enjoyed this immensely. Wild guesses would include Mark Feldman, Dave Douglas, and/or Diedre Murray.

    10. This ensemble track I'm ambivalent about. I liked the trombone into and solo, the trumpet solo, and sax section playing after the trumpet solo. But, while I often hate to compare newer versions with classic recordings, I'm going to say that this take on Stolen Moments pales in comparison to Oliver Nelson's take with Hubbard, Dolphy (dig his profound solos), Evans, Chambers, and Haynes. This was fine, but I'm not going to jump and down about it. I'm not sure why Luis Antonio wanted us to hear this track.

    11. After two more listens, I'm still inclined to say its Art Tatum, though I don't remembering him playing what I hear to be a hymn influenced piece like this. The left hand seems rather ordinary for him, but that flashy and stirring right hand driving up and down the keyboard, if not his, seem to be highly influenced by him. Can someone else of Tatums' period, or Marcus Roberts or another newer pianist, do this? Maybe. Whoever it is, this some excellent piano playing. I loved it.

    12. I couldn't guess who the pianist is, only that it reminds me of many of the great solo piano performances I've heard on Concord's Live at Maybeck series. Gorgeous piano playing, whomever it is. Loved every second of it.

    13. Another excellent live piano performance. The verse is obscured, but the coda sounds like "My Foolish Heart." Anyway, while I'd call track 11 the best piano performance of the test, 12 & 13 make me wish I could play the piano one twentieth as well as the pianists playing here. All are superb piano players.
  8. LASaxman

    LASaxman Active Member

    I've downloaded, but not yet listened.
  9. jazzbill

    jazzbill Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

    Austin, Texas
    I downloaded just a while ago. The Dropbox download didn't work for me because of the format used (.rar) but had no problem with the divshare links. I'll give it a listen this weekend while I try to recover from the flu (yuck!).

  10. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur Member

    Western Australia
    Would someone kindly send me the link. I have emailed Luis asking for it, without success.


  11. Hi , Dino. I've sent you the link for dropbox by e-mail. If by chance it don't work I will sent you another link. Hard to do it now because i am struggling trying to write to write to 52nd street using tablet.
  12. Ken, thank you for attentive listening and acute remarks. For the time being, i will say that concerning to identifications you are into a right path on tracks 9 and 12. Re #10, I didn't want anything but to choose a track from this specific álbum. Most of the times, in choosing tracks for a BFT, I go into an álbum and only thereafter getting a specific track from it. I like that Stolen Moments so it sounded appropriate. Of course, it don't surpass the original Blues & Abstract Truth one. Let us see who is the arranger here. Re #2, I did choose this track thinking precisely in the terms you put on - its progressiviness. Though inserted in this album as a single track, it is part of
    an extended composition. By the way, I liked how you kept hidden the names Windows told you and at the same time commenting on them tanking it into account and let me know what are the unclosed (not always) tracks this time. The mystery continues to me, since there's nothing special in common between them.
  13. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur Member

    Western Australia
    Thanks Luis, downloaded it and you will be happy to know that my computer is giving me no information.

  14. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur Member

    Western Australia
    In case you think we have all fallen asleep, I have had a couple of attempts at listening to the CD I cut, in the car but did not drive far enough to get beyond track 6.
    Tonight I have gone through the whole BFT and must admit I enjoyed it, wrote lots of notes which I will type over the weekend and post.

    You have no idea, how track 13 ""my foolish heart" took me back 60 years.


  15. A later commentary on this. I told that Ken was "into a right path on #9". Yet let me help the car to stay within that right path. I don't know if "first lead" refers to the melody statement lead at 42 secs or to the solo beginning at 1 min 53 secs. Whatever, neither statements are from a cello nor a viola nor any other string instrument. The solo that follows from 3:02 on is a violin, as identified.
  16. I was :D
    It remains being a complete mystery to me.
  17. Thank you for feed back, Peter. Take your time. Two months is being a normal pace lately to get the whole commentaries. Glad to know you liked the compilation.

    I'm honoured, though the real honours must go to the pianist. You noticed, of course, that this track is a medley of two tunes, both entirely played, "My Foolish Heart" being the second. They are linked with a such good taste that they seem to be only one tune. Very moving track, no?
  18. relyles

    relyles Active Member

    West Hartford, CT
    Hello Luis - I have been missing for quite a while, but at this very moment feel inspired. Can you possibly send me the Dropbox link for the files?

  19. Hello, Ronald.

    Glad to have you back. :)

    I sent you the links within a private message.
    Have fun.
  20. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur Member

    Western Australia
    Can I start with #13? When I first listened I thought, "I know that tune" then after a while it became a real favourite of mine "My foolish Heart". Memories of the days when testosterone was galloping and I was madly in love. Then Luis tells me it is two tunes, and for the life of me I cannot remember the name of the tune that is interwoven with MFH. My guess is that it is Bill Evans playing as I know he recorded a concert In Buenos Aires. Yes Luis I know that is the country down the map, but if I have to guess I still say Bill Evans
    #1 Now that's my idea of an opening to a BFT, a big band. Like the track but found the "riff" "bridge" whatever, a bit too repetitive, but I am not complaining
    #2 Another lovely pianist with a superb latin backing. Though I love pianists apart from the obvious like Shearing and Brubeck I am not good at identifying them. Two great opening tracks
    #3 The opening to this put me off. The combination of instruments was a bit too discordant. The soprano was interesting and the bass superb, then the soprano lost me. Sounded a bit like my Siamese cat when she is angry. Sorry not this one.
    #4 A great growling muted trumpet opening, no idea who, then the rest of the big band comes in, liked the sax then ensemble followed by that muted trumpet. Unusual but I like.
    #5. A funeral blues, But I was intrigued as to what the lead instrument was, at first I thought it was an harmonica, but then I wondered if it was a clarinet with some kind of electronic adaptor. Whatever the piano is superb. A big “yes†to this track.
    #6 Liked the opening which I thought sounded like a musical question mark, then it lost me and I think it lost the bass player as well. Not for me
    #7 “Where or Whenâ€Â, Luis you have given me a standard which I recognise. A great opening and the two saxes blend perfectly. Liked the quote from “I’m Confessing†I would have said Coleman Hawkins and Stan Getz, but cannot find that they ever recorded together
    #8 “I can’t give you anything but loveâ€Â, two consecutive standards, Luis, you are teasing us. Tenor and piano are great together and the “walking†bass just adds to it. I am not really willing to guess who the musicians are except that the bass could be Leroy Vinegar
    #9 A very slow opening with a cello? Which caught me by surprise, tenor very flowery, then a violin! Luis I think you like surprising us. Then the piano and base start swinging, muted trumpet or flugelhorn. No idea who this is, unusual (at least to my ear), but I like.
    #10 This is a track I recognise and I love that trombone. The unison playing is my type of jazz. It annoys me that I cannot identify the musicians. Brookmeyer and Terry as a wild guess. (grrr) Favourite track so far.
    #11 Solo piano, very late night piano lounge, lots of notes. As I said about track 2, I love a piano but find it hard to identify individuals. Nothing to dislike about this, just pleasant listening
    continued in next post :rolleyes:
  21. Dinosaur

    Dinosaur Member

    Western Australia
    #12 Another piano solo, could be the same player as track 12 though as I listen I can hear the different style.
    Thanks Luis for a very interesting blindfold test. Lots of piano, which was nice. As I type I am still trying to identify the track that is combined with “My foolish heartâ€Â￾ on track 13. I shall be very interested to see the answers when they are posted
  22. J. Robert Bragonier

    J. Robert Bragonier Maitre d' Forums Staff Member

    1) Tight big band ensemble introduction; then a medium swing tempo. The riff is a contemporary one and more repetitious than I would have expected, although the soloists play well, and the thrust keeps the music moving forward. I don’t identify the riff, and no particular identities suggest themselves…

    2) The pianist in this quartet is the center of attention, but the bongo player and bassist lay down an infectious beat. The openness, harmonic density and percussiveness sound a bit like Ahmad Jamal to me, and, from me, that is no small compliment…

    3) This track starts with an out-of-tempo introduction for the first 1 ¾ minutes, before soprano sax takes responsibility for the melody, over bass- and drum-improvisations. Trumpet, bass trombone, and tenor fill out this septet (at least), and the piece in its entirety had totally won me over by its conclusion, with it laid-back, lazy but optimistic, hopeful ambiance. Nice track, Luis Antonio!

    4) Here are legato smudges of tonal brass color, out of which emerges a trumpet, with a minor blues-inflected solo, kind of distant and lonely. At about 2:30, more tonal smudges, and now an alto takes up the lament, very much in keeping with the trumpet’s emotional tone. Again, bracketed by nostalgic big-band color, the trumpet continues the conversation; the audience responds appreciatively. The level of emotional intensity increases and the big band harmonizations begin to predominate, building to a climax, with explosive drum accents bringing the experience to a dramatic but muted close. Very impressive performance; I really liked it!

    5) The solo instrument on this blues may be oboe (or English horn); I’ve listened to the opening chorus several times, and I cannot convince myself that this is a soprano sax. The plodding four-beat tempo has echoes from the very earliest days of the blues, and it’s downright hypnotic. The second solo is by piano, sensitively and plaintively played; no flashy self-indulgence here. Again, I’m really taken by the tonal colors produced by the background instruments. The last choruses are played in an oboe- and piano-duet. Talk about creating a poignant mood! Wow! Superb track, Luis Antonio!

    6) Here we’ve got a trio with a prolonged rubato recitation, leading to a pensive mood. At first I thought it was going to be an introduction, but it never swung into a groove and went anywhere. That doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy it, but I thought it was going to be a longer piece, and it surprised me when it concluded…

    7) Here is the first tune I recognize: Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart’s “Where or When*.â€Â￾ This is a bright, cheery bounce tune played by two tenors and rhythm section. What’s not to like? The first solo is more astringent than the second, but they’re both delightful. I put a few tenor combinations into my data base and came up blank.

    8) “I Can’t Give You Anything but Love,â€Â￾ by Dorothy Fields and Jimmy McHugh by a splendid tenor quartet, over a recurrent syncopated obbligato. A lovely, breathy, Prez-inspired saxophone sound; another great winner that reduces me to putty in my chair. Listen to that beautiful melodic bass solo…

    9) Dig that: muted trumpet and arco cello; isn’t that gorgeous? Or, wait a minute: that’s not a cello; that’s some kind of electronic wind instrument. Or, is it? And, listen to that violin! It sounds to me like Regina Carter. Now the trumpet is unmuted, and the lovely solos continue…

    10) OK; here’s Oliver Nelson’s “Stolen Moments,â€Â￾ in a big band arrangement. Solo trombone states the head and takes the first solo; great tune; great sound; great arrangement! Next solos are trumpet and bass (although the latter is more rhythmic than creative), and trombone and brass ensemble bring us home on the head. Just great!

    11) Aaah; how sweet it is! Duke Ellington’s “Come Sunday,â€Â￾ played by a lush, full-fingered pianist with plenty of respect for Duke and tune, and lots of scrumptious embellishment! That’s a beautiful arrangement, and there’s plenty of personal styling there, but I can’t nail down an identity for the pianist…

    12) Here’s another piano intro; let’s see what develops… It’s obviously Cole Porter’s “All of You.â€Â￾ Sounds almost like it could be the same pianist, although I think the recording level is different on these last two tracks. But, it is another solo pianist, and I wonder why there are two of them in a row?

    13) Oh, here we are, with three super piano solos in a row, and all lovely ballads! I wonder what message Luis Antonio is sending us here? This is in live concert, and the ballad is a medley of two tunes, I think; I haven’t gotten the name of the first one yet, but the second is Victor Young and Ned Washington’s “My Foolish Heart.â€Â￾

    Thanks for this BFT, Luis Antonio. As always, the effort and care you put into choosing and copying your tracks swaddle your test like an ermine shawl. I think what I’m going to do, since I’m next up, is to wait a couple months or so and get my vim and vigor back. I really want to do another BFT, but not when I’m feeling at low energy and somewhat burned out.

    So, bear with me, guys; let’s take a breather and get our Mojo back…!

    *Reminds me of the old one about the goons who come up to the band leader backstage, and one of them says, “The big boss wants you should play ‘Where’ or ‘When,’ and if you know what’s good for you, you better play bofe’ of ‘em…â€Â￾
  23. As usual, I dig Dr. Bob kind of "liner notes commentaries". Thank you both him and Peter for your appreciation.
    While we wait for Bill, David and Ronald, let me advance a few things about a couple of tracks.
    Dr. Bob suspicion is well-founded. There's no cello in this track!
    And yet it's interesting that all of you three heard a cello. As I told yet to Ken: "I don't know if "first lead" refers to the melody statement lead at 42 secs or to the solo beginning at 1 min 53 secs. Whatever, neither statements are from a cello nor a viola nor any other string instrument. The solo that follows from 3:02 on is a violin, as identified." There are six players/instruments here. Trumpet, violin, piano, bass, drums and a wind instrument (though not electronic). It's this wind player who takes the lead at 42 secs and a solo from 1:53 on. A curiosity - that player is featured in one of the big band tracks playing the same instrument.
  24. It was just after the tracks were chosen that, listening to them in a row, I noticed that these two tracks could pass for being from the same pianist. Though, as Dino cleverly pointed out, we "can hear the different style". So, I decided to put them side by side and, thereafter, thought "why not have them followed by track #13 just as closing track?" So, there's no special message in that. Only three piano solo tracks that I love very much. By the way, #11 and #12 feature different pianists. No trick here.
  25. What lend me directly to ...
    No, it's not Bill Evans. Though the connection is not unfounded. There are some standard tunes that grow into being associated in a very special way with one specific player. Kind of the player turning the tune his own trademark. As Coleman Hawkins / Body And Soul or Lester Young / These Foolish Things. More recently, Keith Jarrett / When I Fall In Love. And so on. Bill Evans / My Foolish Heart is not just "another" case, but a pristine one. The curiosity is that I'd never associated the first tune with any jazz player, even never heard it from any jazz player. And then, I was just listening some weeks ago to Bill Evan's set The Secret Sessions when all of a sudden ... the same tune was up there! Now, here is some clues about the tune (and maybe even the player). I identified the tune by ear, even so because it wouldn't be possible to do so by reading the track list. The title was entirely unknow for me and the reason was not that Bill Evan's track was a "disguised" tune, but the fact of the title being in English and I know it by it's original no-english title. For the ones who can access the Secret Sessions set, the tune is in the 1973 August selection. A final coincidence. I don't know why Dino referred to Buenos Aires but : a) I purchased this CD when I was in Buenos Aires; b) it was recorded live at.... Buenos Aires!

Share This Page